As reviewed in Staff report before Council July 6th the traffic in Kingscross is moving too fast. Recent monitoring shows that 85th percentile speed is 78 km/hr which is well beyond the posted limit of 40 km/hr. Traffic speed and potential methods for slowing it down has been subject of several Council meetings and at least one public information meeting over the last 2 years. Each time, there has been lack of agreement/acceptance of the need and lack of agreement/acceptance of the most commonly proposed method, namely speed humps. As the latest data collected was by a monitor not visible to drivers it reinforces to me that there is a problem on Kingscross Drive. I am very keen to execute the proposal of the radar speed board signs given the trial conducted on Kingscross which showed that the 85th percentile speed dropped from 78 to 51 km/hr. In addition to the data I know from my own behavior and talking to people that such a sign does modify behavior. I do have some questions of Staff, including whether 2 boards is adequate.
Speeding traffic is an issue in every village, hamlet and city; recently there are reports that City of Toronto is considering lowering speed limits across the City. I believe that most drivers do not intentionally speed; they just don’t pay attention to their spedometer and they are so focussed on getting to their destination. We, the tax payer cannot afford to have adequate police, to ticket. Ignoring the opposition to speed humps in terms of the mere principle of them, they are not a perfect solution given the limitations on where they can be placed. I believe the feedback to drivers about their speed will be valuable; and indeed, the trial does indicate this.
Hi Debbie,
I still do not want to see speed bumps installed in Kingscross.
Just a thought, but perhaps when all the new construction
is over, if it ever is, we will see less speeding due to the
workers and also less garbage which they seem to love
tossing out the window and which I pick up on a regular
basis. Not saying it is all their doing, I see residents speeding
all the time, and also I am not perfect.
I would like to know, if there have been any serious accidents
in Kingscross because of speeding which would prompt the
installation of speed bumps. I would also like to know for what reason and who is insisting on the installation.
There are so many areas in King Twp where people have been
killed and yet nothing has been done. Why is it taking so
long to install the round about, are they waiting for another
accident? Surely this is a project which should take priority
over speed bumps in Kingscross.
Hello Arlene, I think you have misunderstood; the recommendation does NOT include installing speed humps. The “zeal” to do something is based on people believing and perceiving that traffic is moving faster than the posted 40 km/hr; the latest data fully substantiates this. Not sure which roundabout you are referring to; as there have been fatal accidents at Lloydtown Aurora Rd/Keele I am assuming that is the one you are thinking of. On this basis: i) dealing with Kingscross Drive is a Township responsibility whereas the roundabout is a regional one; ii) it is evident that work is soon to begin as new hydro poles have been dropped off at the site. I agree..I wish it was moving more quickly but there was a lot of technical planning plus land acquisition to be completed.
Debbie, first I must say I haven’t followed this issue very closely, however, as a driver and resident of King City I have a couple of questions and observations
Is Kingscross Drive prone to accidents due to drivers’ speed? What speed limit is reasonable for safe driving on Kingscross? If 85% of the drivers are driving at 78 km/hr then 40 is likely too slow for this road.
I have also observed that the radar speed boards overall appear to slow drivers. I’ve seen one board where a bright white light flashes at 10 km/hr over the limit, and this is very effective at gaining a driver’s attention. Once the vehicle has slowed to within 10 km/hr of the posted speed, the white light stops flashing and the sign only shows the current speed of the vehicle. My one concern about the boards that simply show your speed, is that we are seeing these boards more and more, and as drivers we may become more complacent about them and gradually pay less attention to them.
I’m not sure why speed humps are opposed so strongly. I have experienced speed humps in Vaughan for several years near a school where I taught, and I found these worked very effectively without unduly slowing traffic. I find a car can safely go over a well-constructed speed hump at 30 km/hr to 35 km/hr. Once installed a speed hump can last for many years. Very simply, I have observed speed humps work very well when placed at appropriate locations on a roadway with posted speeds of 40 or 50.
Thank you for the opportunity to respond. Bruce Craig
Thank you for your reply, sorry I am so late in reading it.
So glad to hear about the speed humps not bing installed.
Yes, the round about I mentioned is at Lloydtown Aurora Rd.
Didn’t realize it was Regional, and happy to see construction
being started.
Thanks Debbie for your response, you are always available,
nice to have a counsellor that really cares, and does a
great job.
Debbie,
I have seen the speed boards n Kingcross and approve. I’m surprised at the percentile of speeders and wondered if the monitoring gave a time line. I know that there are speeders a night that try their super cars out on our windy road.
Thanks you for your updates.
Hello Toni, Nice to hear your approval of the boards. I think they are a wonderful alternative to speed humps as I do believe that often drivers are distracted and simply don’t realize how fast they are driving. My belief is partially based on, I must admit, to my own driving habits. As for your question it is my understanding that the data is available. Your hypothesis about what occurs at night is a worrisome one…pretty unsafe and not very respectful of people living in the area.
Hi Debbie,
I know we have communicated about the speed of drivers in the neighbourhood before.
I do think the radar speed boards slow people down—if they consider their speed an issue. As a dog walker, my experience is that most people will either slow down when they approach me as a pedestrian, or at least move over to give some space between their car and me. However, there continues to be a substantial number of cars who continue to drive well above 40 km and drive close to me (I am walking on the shoulder of the road). By the time they have passed the radar speed boards and driven farther into the neighbourhood, (if they did slow down and were monitoring their speed at that point), they are no longer driving slowly. I am sure that these speeders feel they are in good control of their vehicles but they have little regard for pedestrians.
If the speed boards are to be effective they need to be put throughout the Kingscross-Manitou stretch (yes speeders on Manitou too)and probably through to Jane. I still am in favour of speed bumps as they ensure that cars slow down. Please monitor the speed of cars throughout the neighbourhood—do not assume that 2 radar speed boards will change the behaviour of speeders and inconsiderate drivers.
thanks Jan for your comments/observations. There are plans to monitor the speed at a regular frequency to see what is actually happening. And I have already raised the idea of additional ones.
Hi Debbie,
I’d like to add some comments on the subject of speeding and speed bumps in Kingscross. First of all let me say I am opposed to speed bumps. They cause momentary slowdowns only and having had one at the bottom of my driveway I watched and heard all the braking and speeding up caused by it.
My own observation on traffic and pedestrian patterns in Kingscross is this. Early in the morning there is a combination of faster driving cars and people walking dogs or walking/running.
For the rest of the day, I rarely see anyone walking with or without dogs, and the traffic is minimal and slower.
I still believe we need a widening of the roads through Kingscross to include a walking path on one side of the road, similar to that requested by residents and installed in Hunters Glen, in Aurora. I sent you photographs of this solution, last Fall.
Finally, a comment from my husband. He likes the electronic speed awareness signs and believes they are effective.
Thank you for your continued attention to our concerns.
Greetings Debbie,
Solar Panels Stolen
Sadly some yahoo has stolen the solar panels on the speed board signs and they are no longer working 🙁
I was very happy to see the speed board signs installed. I immediately observed drivers reducing their speed. The speed boards seemed to be a better alternative to speed humps which frankly do not work well. It the short period that the 5 or 6 speed humps were installed, drivers who like to speed would simply race between them. For speed humps to be effective you would need speed humps every couple hundred metres which in not feasible.
Longer term the issue needs to be addressed properly. Cars and pedestrians sharing the same space are just not a safe mix. Most drivers are courteous, slowing down and giving way to pedestrians however some remain oblivious. Residents need a safe place to walk, jog, bike and enjoy their community. We have ample room for a walking / jogging path beside the road. Yes the cost will be considerable. However planed for it would be a decimal point percentage of the annual King budget. Kingscross is coming due to receive investment back from township against the $$ millions it has paid over the years in taxes and fees.
At a minimum it would be good to see the residents as a group come to a consensus on which way they would like the issue addressed longer term.
Hello Brian, Yes it is very unfortunate that solar panels were stolen; very self centered and/or very disrespectful of community. The intent is to have them activated again in near future; I also want to determine if there should be additional ones. As you indicate, they were effective; we have data which confirms this. Your suggestion of new pedestrian/road infrastructure is something which could be explored with KERA (Kingscross Rate Payors Association); as you have indicated it will be a very big project in terms of $$ and it will require KERA to confirm specific option desired.